“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.” -Matthew 7:21
"Severely disturbed" is the only way I can respectfully put it.
While not echoing comalee's question--which seems to imply that the grammatical object of your statement is YOU--I also pose a question--what bothers you about it? The seeming severity of the statement?
Do I correctly infer that you refer to the Speaker as disturbed?
I'll keep my mouth shut before in further mire myself and turn the podium back over to you.
The real disturbing part to me, is the fact that it has been taken extremely out of context and warped according to whatever the Church back in the day decided would be the best way to manipulate people into giving them money.
Even more disturbing is that people will follow this blindly without looking within themselves to find their truth.
Additionally... so many other people wrote about Jesus and on religious matters in the times afterward - who says God didn't inspire them, too? Or other religions as well, for that matter?
All paths lead to heaven.
@comalee - @wrybreadspread - @LaRuralMetroFemme - Sorry I haven't responded yet, guys. I've literally been just doing school work and the such up 'til today. I'll give you actual answers soon.
@LaRuralMetroFemme - not to dispute you--only to ruminate aloud. There are those not of a Christian faith tradition who embark on good paths, like Socrates, Buddha, Gandhi, etc. (some of them predated Christ, of course) Then there are those who embarked on a path totally antithetical to anything resembling goodness. Stalin shook his fist to the sky as he lay dying, according to his daughter. I try not to presume to know who went where--but some go out of their way to lay waste to the landscape the path is on.
Well, I guess timeliness was never a specialty of mine. Sorry for the long wait, guys. School finally got out.
@comalee - wrybreadspread is right in that it's not me who's severely disturbed. I find disturbed those who can be utterly kind to others and yet hold a belief that a simple disbelief in God will send a person to Hell. A conversation I had with a friend of mine puts it best:
[3:04:30 AM] Wamm K. D.: I guess I find it very disturbing to be able to say that, yes, belief in Christ is required to not go burn brutally in Hell and then someone sees this as absolutely no issue with how they interact with other people [3:04:51 AM] Wamm K. D.: I'm not talking preaching fire and brimstone, trying to convert at every second, etc. wacko [3:05:05 AM] LB: lol wacko [3:05:42 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean a generous individual, who sees you as a person, and who respects you - yet seems to find it perfectly normal that at some point you'll be burning in a lake of fire [3:05:59 AM] Wamm K. D.: there's a disconnect of logic there that is far more than eerie [3:06:01 AM] LB: I know [3:06:07 AM] Wamm K. D.: (you know how I need my logic) [3:06:10 AM] Wamm K. D.: but even more so [3:06:31 AM] Wamm K. D.: there's a form of apathy, or perhaps disconnect, to the human being that I just cannot get [3:06:59 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean, you know me well enough to know that pretty much everything in life comes back to how you treat others. Always, in just about every fraction [3:08:19 AM] Wamm K. D.: and that someone could be so genuine and yet totally unphased by such a possible future treatment of you envokes a disconnect from how you feel, concern for your own well being that truly terrifies me [3:08:26 AM] Wamm K. D.: and I don't mean to bad mouth, by all means [3:08:46 AM] Wamm K. D.: once again, good will and concern leave me with no option but to think kindly on a person [3:08:57 AM] Wamm K. D.: and, as I said, such a person certainly does *care* [3:09:09 AM] Wamm K. D.: but that's what makes all more tragic their other belief, to me [3:09:24 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean, I'm preaching to choir here, you know all this already [3:09:39 AM] Wamm K. D.: but it was just bothering me like mad today
So, the above is sort of my scriptural response to said people.
@wrybreadspread - Haha, don't worry, it's not the scripture I'm reacting too. And it'll take far far more to ever make me believe Christ to be disturbed.
I was just in an emotional position that day and was reacting to people's ability to believe that non-believers will go to Hell and yet have no issue with acting completely kind to them. It's better explained in the conversation I showed comalee, just a little above here. For me, John 14:6 never really was so clear as to give only the one conclusion that so many draw from it. So the above scripture is kinda my response to those who believe that.
@LaRuralMetroFemme - "Even more disturbing is that people will follow this blindly without looking within themselves to find their truth."
One of the teachings of Christianity is that if a person confesses their sin, they will be forgiven.
So if a serial killer kills 17 people and then asks Jesus into his heart, he is going to go to heaven. Another person can live his whole life helping the poor and giving everything he has away, and yet go to hell because he did not ask Jesus into his heart.
Is it fair to send a serial killer to heaven and a good person to hell?” (end excerpt)
I refrained from replying because it would get lost in the shuffle. Now I can indulge my fragile ego in front of an audience of one--hehe. So--let me respond as briefly as I can
I’m including the accounts in their entirety. Why? These accounts have power. They cut to the heart. They provide the context.
Acts 10
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
FAST FORWARD
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
FAST FORWARD
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
What do I want to highlight? “Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.”
Luke 18
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
28Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
29And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
30Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
What do I want to highlight? “Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
James 2
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
What do I want to highlight? “Faith without works is dead.”
On one level, salvation is a simple matter. Humanity is fallen. God the Son shed His holy Blood to wash away the awful indelible stain.
On another level, it’s as complex as a DNA molecule. How do we know when a person is saved? We don’t. All we have are the externals. Only God knows the heart. And my own heart is full of the foulest thoughts imaginable. In my thoughts, I don’t hesitate one second to bang the foxy chick I see--or steal the new camcorder I want--or drive my car over the s.o.b. who just flipped me the bird. When I misplace my car keys or dent my car fender, I can spew a string of profanity that would make people drop in their tracks. I’m a poster boy for the Seven Deadly Sins. Lust, sloth, gluttony, hatred, yadda yadda.
The Other Thief. (Luke 23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.) had no time to go and feed the hungry. His time was up.
The workers in eh vineyard (Matthew 20) each got the same pay--whether they started at sunrise or late afternoon.
Let me say this. A lot of people may start out saying, “I’m gonna feed the hungry and preach and attend church and this, that, & the other. I‘m gonna help at the homeless shelter and send a monthly offering to feed some kid in Haiti.”--and end up saying, “Heck, God! I can’t keep up--on either end! First, the job’s too big! Second, I got a dirty mind, a lazy butt, and a foul mouth!”
A person isn’t saved because they rack up points. A person is saved by the Finished Work of Christ. How does God reveal Himself to them? He has His ways. Is Buddha in Hell? Is Gandhi in Hell.? Jeffrey Dahmer? How ‘bout Adolph Hitler? Joseph Stalin? Y’know what? I’m not going there! I don’t know!
I promised I’d be brief. Guess I shot that to Helsinki.
@wrybreadspread - "I refrained from replying because it would get lost in the shuffle. Now I can indulge my fragile ego in front of an audience of one"
Haha, I wouldn't be one to tell you to refrain.
I know the argument that belief removes possible unfair work. But I feel that cutting of that work takes away the care that is necessary for our fellow people. To quote above, "Faith without works is dead.” Yet I don't feel that just works is not a good judging system. As you said, we all often fall short - hence why we have forgiveness. The Pharisee is proud, even uncaring to his fellow man, thereby sinning (with, it seems, no intention of repenting). Yet the publican knows he does wrong and just asks that God forgive him as (I would assume) he tries his best.
That's not an unfair system. One measured by works, yes, but also the intent and desire to do those works.
In the end though, I could provide alternative ways of looking at the scripture and someone else could just say I'm reading into it. In the end, I'll settle with your response - I don't know. Considering I both profess to know Christ and try my best to do good works, I ought to be fine. But it's by the teachings of Christ that I find I must worry about the others.
Comments (8)
Why are you severely disturbed?
While not echoing comalee's question--which seems to imply that the grammatical object of your statement is YOU--I also pose a question--what bothers you about it? The seeming severity of the statement?
Do I correctly infer that you refer to the Speaker as disturbed?
I'll keep my mouth shut before in further mire myself and turn the podium back over to you.
The real disturbing part to me, is the fact that it has been taken extremely out of context and warped according to whatever the Church back in the day decided would be the best way to manipulate people into giving them money.
Even more disturbing is that people will follow this blindly without looking within themselves to find their truth.
Additionally... so many other people wrote about Jesus and on religious matters in the times afterward - who says God didn't inspire them, too? Or other religions as well, for that matter?
All paths lead to heaven.
@comalee - @wrybreadspread - @LaRuralMetroFemme - Sorry I haven't responded yet, guys. I've literally been just doing school work and the such up 'til today. I'll give you actual answers soon.
@LaRuralMetroFemme - not to dispute you--only to ruminate aloud. There are those not of a Christian faith tradition who embark on good paths, like Socrates, Buddha, Gandhi, etc. (some of them predated Christ, of course) Then there are those who embarked on a path totally antithetical to anything resembling goodness. Stalin shook his fist to the sky as he lay dying, according to his daughter. I try not to presume to know who went where--but some go out of their way to lay waste to the landscape the path is on.
Well, I guess timeliness was never a specialty of mine. Sorry for the long wait, guys. School finally got out.
@comalee - wrybreadspread is right in that it's not me who's severely disturbed. I find disturbed those who can be utterly kind to others and yet hold a belief that a simple disbelief in God will send a person to Hell. A conversation I had with a friend of mine puts it best:
[3:04:30 AM] Wamm K. D.: I guess I find it very disturbing to be able to say that, yes, belief in Christ is required to not go burn brutally in Hell and then someone sees this as absolutely no issue with how they interact with other people
[3:04:51 AM] Wamm K. D.: I'm not talking preaching fire and brimstone, trying to convert at every second, etc. wacko
[3:05:05 AM] LB: lol wacko
[3:05:42 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean a generous individual, who sees you as a person, and who respects you - yet seems to find it perfectly normal that at some point you'll be burning in a lake of fire
[3:05:59 AM] Wamm K. D.: there's a disconnect of logic there that is far more than eerie
[3:06:01 AM] LB: I know
[3:06:07 AM] Wamm K. D.: (you know how I need my logic)
[3:06:10 AM] Wamm K. D.: but even more so
[3:06:31 AM] Wamm K. D.: there's a form of apathy, or perhaps disconnect, to the human being that I just cannot get
[3:06:59 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean, you know me well enough to know that pretty much everything in life comes back to how you treat others. Always, in just about every fraction
[3:08:19 AM] Wamm K. D.: and that someone could be so genuine and yet totally unphased by such a possible future treatment of you envokes a disconnect from how you feel, concern for your own well being that truly terrifies me
[3:08:26 AM] Wamm K. D.: and I don't mean to bad mouth, by all means
[3:08:46 AM] Wamm K. D.: once again, good will and concern leave me with no option but to think kindly on a person
[3:08:57 AM] Wamm K. D.: and, as I said, such a person certainly does *care*
[3:09:09 AM] Wamm K. D.: but that's what makes all more tragic their other belief, to me
[3:09:24 AM] Wamm K. D.: I mean, I'm preaching to choir here, you know all this already
[3:09:39 AM] Wamm K. D.: but it was just bothering me like mad today
So, the above is sort of my scriptural response to said people.
@wrybreadspread - Haha, don't worry, it's not the scripture I'm reacting too. And it'll take far far more to ever make me believe Christ to be disturbed.
I was just in an emotional position that day and was reacting to people's ability to believe that non-believers will go to Hell and yet have no issue with acting completely kind to them. It's better explained in the conversation I showed comalee, just a little above here. For me, John 14:6 never really was so clear as to give only the one conclusion that so many draw from it. So the above scripture is kinda my response to those who believe that.
@LaRuralMetroFemme - "Even more disturbing is that people will follow this blindly without looking within themselves to find their truth."
I'll co-sign to that.
@thirst2 -
Theologian Dan had this post and got a zillion replies.
http://thetheologianscafe.xanga.com/727730964/is-god-fair/
“Wednesday, 26 May 2010
Is God Fair?
One of the teachings of Christianity is that if a person confesses their sin, they will be forgiven.
So if a serial killer kills 17 people and then asks Jesus into his heart, he is going to go to heaven. Another person can live his whole life helping the poor and giving everything he has away, and yet go to hell because he did not ask Jesus into his heart.
Is it fair to send a serial killer to heaven and a good person to hell?” (end excerpt)
I refrained from replying because it would get lost in the shuffle. Now I can indulge my fragile ego in front of an audience of one--hehe. So--let me respond as briefly as I can
I’m including the accounts in their entirety. Why? These accounts have power. They cut to the heart. They provide the context.
Acts 10
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
FAST FORWARD
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
FAST FORWARD
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
What do I want to highlight? “Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.”
Luke 18
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
28Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
29And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
30Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
What do I want to highlight? “Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”
James 2
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
What do I want to highlight? “Faith without works is dead.”
On one level, salvation is a simple matter. Humanity is fallen. God the Son shed His holy Blood to wash away the awful indelible stain.
On another level, it’s as complex as a DNA molecule. How do we know when a person is saved? We don’t. All we have are the externals. Only God knows the heart. And my own heart is full of the foulest thoughts imaginable. In my thoughts, I don’t hesitate one second to bang the foxy chick I see--or steal the new camcorder I want--or drive my car over the s.o.b. who just flipped me the bird. When I misplace my car keys or dent my car fender, I can spew a string of profanity that would make people drop in their tracks. I’m a poster boy for the Seven Deadly Sins. Lust, sloth, gluttony, hatred, yadda yadda.
The Other Thief. (Luke 23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.) had no time to go and feed the hungry. His time was up.
The workers in eh vineyard (Matthew 20) each got the same pay--whether they started at sunrise or late afternoon.
Let me say this. A lot of people may start out saying, “I’m gonna feed the hungry and preach and attend church and this, that, & the other. I‘m gonna help at the homeless shelter and send a monthly offering to feed some kid in Haiti.”--and end up saying, “Heck, God! I can’t keep up--on either end! First, the job’s too big! Second, I got a dirty mind, a lazy butt, and a foul mouth!”
A person isn’t saved because they rack up points. A person is saved by the Finished Work of Christ. How does God reveal Himself to them? He has His ways. Is Buddha in Hell? Is Gandhi in Hell.? Jeffrey Dahmer? How ‘bout Adolph Hitler? Joseph Stalin? Y’know what? I’m not going there! I don’t know!
I promised I’d be brief. Guess I shot that to Helsinki.
@wrybreadspread - "I refrained from replying because it would get lost in the shuffle. Now I can indulge my fragile ego in front of an audience of one"
Haha, I wouldn't be one to tell you to refrain.
I know the argument that belief removes possible unfair work. But I feel that cutting of that work takes away the care that is necessary for our fellow people. To quote above, "Faith without works is dead.” Yet I don't feel that just works is not a good judging system. As you said, we all often fall short - hence why we have forgiveness. The Pharisee is proud, even uncaring to his fellow man, thereby sinning (with, it seems, no intention of repenting). Yet the publican knows he does wrong and just asks that God forgive him as (I would assume) he tries his best.
That's not an unfair system. One measured by works, yes, but also the intent and desire to do those works.
In the end though, I could provide alternative ways of looking at the scripture and someone else could just say I'm reading into it. In the end, I'll settle with your response - I don't know. Considering I both profess to know Christ and try my best to do good works, I ought to be fine. But it's by the teachings of Christ that I find I must worry about the others.
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