May 24, 2009

  • A Small Request for the Unreligious

    This is half rambling thoughts (though it's meant as a direct request), so I ask you to bear slightly with me.

    If you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm Christian. Catholic, to be specific, but that's inconsequential. To be utterly brief and summational, I've always found that I got along better with those who were of different faiths or followed no religious belief at all.

    I should also quickly mention, I admit that my own experiences (hence forming my current opinions) may very well be limited. Therefore, I don't begin to assume that what I describe here is necessarily true for every said person. In fact, I tend to do that with most people I encounter in life: treat things on a very individual level.

    To be brief (again), the biggest difference between the avidly religious Christians and the latter group was the latter seemed to "think". I tend to believe in logic and reason with the same passion as the Enlightenment and that's how my mind-process functions.

    Now, I'm not trying to set up a dynamic where the more professed of a Christian you are, the more unintelligent and irrational you are. And, of course, vice versa. I would clearly have no place in that dynamic. But we do know, thanks to our psychotic, fundie Christian friends out there who seem to find it their mission to make us suffer the same idiocy which has removed their own brains, that there is a large enough sample of Christians who do make that dynamic seem plausible.

    Switching topics just briefly (I ought to make that my word for the day...), a club titled Williams' Secular Community was started just this year at my college. Excited at the idea of helping along a newly started group and that Secular thinkers (though, of course, namely aimed at atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc.) would actually get a group and space within the area of religious need was fantastic to me (at the office for religious needs, our group actually has a tag with information alongside the other religious groups on campus; it's pretty damn cool).

    I ended up missing the first meeting, unfortunately, but promptly made the second. It appears that all (to my memory) religious individuals who has attended the first meeting to see what the club was about decided not to keep attending. Which was fine. Though I was slightly anxious as to the purpose and point of the club (it was undecided in the beginning). It had been advertised majoridly as a group for atheists, and, while I felt that was certainly important, I didn't want that to be the only focus of the group. Such an intent would easily alienate any others who would wish to join. In the end, the group has been slanted towards Secular thinkers (which I easily fit the category) with a concentration towards atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc.

    Surprisingly, as I voiced my concern that second meeting, the members assured me the group was open to anyone and explained that's why they settled on the name they had. What I didn't expect, nor was it a worry (though I definitely appreciated the gesture), was an assurance that if I felt uncomfortable in the group at all to just let them know.

    Obviously, many of the jokes in the group tend to be slanted towards Christians in a general sense. However, I have been given the permission (of course, I say that entirely jokingly) to "fire back" if ever any member gets ahead of him/herself. But in a group nearly entirely of atheists/humanists with one Christian, the environment is of no surprise.

    And I know that the jokes are in light of and levied towards our psychotic friends; some of them pretty obviously so (I find creationism laughable, for example). Though I can't help but notice that, for some members, this is what Christianity means for them (largely in part because that brand of Christianity tends to get most airtime, etc. versus the less controversial or extreme Christians).

    I know that in discussing the formation of the Secular group during an Interfaith group that had started at the beginning of the year, the members of the Interfaith group felt that the use of "logic" and "thought" in the posters put up around campus implied that religious people were incapable of thought or reason. Of course, I'd like the point out that the posters were in reference to Secular thought. Religious thought may require reason to sort out, etc. but it is not in itself reason. Nor is it science. But I rest my opinions there. Let's see if I can finish this up relatively soon.

    The members did have a point though. I certainly don't believe that religious belief suddenly equals the death of free-thought or reason. Largely because religions are intensely interpretation, etc. no matter what anyone else tells you. A statement like, "Well, Christians believe..." is immediately wrong. Religion is far too varied to just shoot down as if it is a monolithic set of beliefs. In fact, most theologians, priests, rabbis, etc. I've talked to have said that their respective religious texts are not meant to necessarily be handbooks on how to live. There are further steps which are required.

    So whenever I hear certain universal statements about Christianity, I find myself wanting to object. Because, often, they're not in a Secular Community where I've been given full acceptance. They can be made by those who don't know that there are Christians out there who feel no need to make their own beliefs your beliefs. They could be made by those who are simply being general and do know there are those who think reasonably and could probably hold their respect. And there may be those who really don't give a damn either way.

    Simply, my request is this - whether because you like to take to task creationists, are simply providing pieces of evidence for discussion about the validity of a religion, or some idiot totally infringed on your privacy and couldn't let each individual belief stand, don't blame all Christians. I'm no Jerry Falwell, William Dembski, nor anyone else along that line. I understand why we hold differing views.

    I just ask that you don't forget I exist when dismantling an idea about or individual of Christianity. Call me sensitive, but I take words personally.

     

     

    **I do realize I lend a rather harsh assessment of Creationism in here. While I do think you have every right to believe in it, I strongly object to the idea of having it taught in public schools, etc. I realize you may not fall under that category but that was who the remarks were most leveled towards. I'm sorry if I've come off cruelly in this entry towards you.

Comments (6)

  • First, I feel obliged to tell you it is "Creationism," not "creationalism." That being said, I'm sorry to admit that I am guilty of sometimes lumping all Christians together. I do my best to avoid it, but it sometimes happens. If I do and you notice, call me out on it.

  • @GodlessLiberal - oh, d'oh. Heh, it's 4 in the morning right now and I've already had to make 5 edits to the thing. Sleep is a good thing...

    And thanks. You've been pretty good about making a distinction in past posts of yours, but this further gesture is certainly appreciated.

  • @thirst2 - I try my best, but sometimes it isn't clear. And I completely understand the typos. No worries. Maybe you were combining "creationism" with "sensationalism" in your subconscious.

  • Did I mention to you that somebody started a humanist club here and I joined?  Well anyway the groups mostly atheist/agnostic and I'm the token Catholic and we have no idea what to do with the group haha.  What did you guys come up with?

  • @bangwhimper - Oh, that's a shame. It really depends on the people, but ours was focused on being largely discussion based. Every week someone would lead a discussion on something related to God or non-belief in faith. Some of the discussions I remember was over the Epicurean Paradox:

    If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
        then He is not omnipotent.
    If He is able, but not willing
        then He is malevolent.
    If He is both able and willing
        then whence cometh evil?
    If He is neither able nor willing
        then why call Him God?

    I think I had told you, but I lead a discussion on whether atheists can be moral (obviously that was decided yes quickly) and then what is morality defined by, is it universal, is it perspective, etc.

    We also had planned to have different people talk about their own personal background and why they believe what they do, etc. but that never really ended up happening (only one person did it and I missed the meeting).

    We also put on a movie night at one point. We wanted to outreach to the other religious groups on campus to get the groups involved together and perhaps, in the future, lead to debate, etc.

    We put on a book drive for a center for "difficult" young boys as well. You can do a lot of stuff along those lines. As a new club, mostly make sure you're known and whatnot.

    Haha, so we're both the lone Catholics, huh? Why'd you join your group? I'm curious, and I don't think you had told me.

    And I'll be sure to respond to the message you had responded to on FB. I've just gotta finish this final paper for the year first....

  • @thirst2 - Ironic that now that you can respond to my Xanga account I'm not notified... and that since I expect to be notified I don't bother looking for respones... anyway.

    The stuff you're doing sounds cool, a little like what we're discussing in my God & Science class right now.  The thing about our group is that by focusing on it being Humanist the guy who started it is leaning toward the interpretation that it's about a "global community."  Most of the people are from the Atheist/Agnostic/Non-Religious club but the guy who started it is also big in Amnesty International.  Oh, and there's also some people from the eco-clubs.  Basically, there's a lot of overlap so a focus is definitely needed.  Btw, just curious, what movie did you guys show?  Debate stuff is cool... like I always mention, C.S. Lewis started that club for Christians and Atheists to debate.. sounded fun.  Course I'm getting a little tired of it in my class right now.
    But yeah I figured I'd join the group just because it was a new group getting off the ground (opportunity for leadership/marketing), the guy in charge is an acquaintance I'd like to know better since he's one of the few other English majors, and I wanted to even out any discussion/try and make other groups seem reasonable by being the Catholic one.
    Oh and don't worry about the FB thing.  I think I went a little overboard with the last response haha.

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